Debatable Decisions – Week 31
Debatable Decisions Week 31 and this week I made a glaring error, I forgot to add Andy Carroll’s wonderful dive against Newcastle, mainly because I didn’t even think it was debatable, but two of our judges added their thoughts nevertheless. Simon F said “One of the worst dives I’ve seen in a long time. He seems to expect the contact from Krul and goes over in anticipation of it, rather than keeping his feet and actually scoring a goal having rounded the keeper. Stupid and rightly booked.” and Ant said “A terrible dive from Carroll when it was easy to score, I think Stan Collymore said something on twitter the other day that is very true. Players in modern football sometimes take the easy way of diving because they lack the confidence to beat the man and score. Carroll showed great control and could have easily slotted the ball home for a goal against his former club but for some reason he chose to dive instead.” Kudos to Carroll though, for a big man he didn’t half make a decent fist of conning the referee by flinging himself to the ground.
Man City – Sunderland
Dzeko Penalty
Simon M – There was a massive fuss made about this call on Twitter and I was expecting to see some crazy Carroll-esque theatrics from Dzeko, but for my money he takes the ball past Gardner and whilst Gardner is trying to get out of the way there is still enough contact to send Dzeko down and a penalty had to be awarded.
Ben – Quite clearly a foul, Gardner to his credit does try to pull out of the challenge but his momentum is too great.
Ant – I think this was a penalty but the thing that annoys me is Dzeko is going down before the contact is even made.
Mike – You can make a case here that Dzeko is already going down. I think he probably his. But I still see the challenge as a foul and therefore it has to be a penalty.
Simon F – For all that Dzeko is looking for the contact and very theatrical about it, Gardner trips him and the penalty was the right decision. Gardner made a big show of moving his leg out of the way, but only after he had tripped Dzeko, and by my interpretation of the rules it was a foul.
Overall Verdict – Correct Decision
Wolves – Bolton
Davies Penalty
Simon M – Having a look at the referee as you fly through the air towards the ground is the tell tale sign of a dive and a dive is exactly what this is. Minimal contact, certainly not enough to send Davies down and a penalty incorrectly awarded.
Ben – Davies cheats, it’s as simple as that. The key to being able to tell this from replays is the way he kicks out his leg in the hope of making contact. He knows he’s dived and unfortunately the referee has bought it.
Ant – Nothing move to say than cheat, Davies dives to win the penalty simple.
Mike – It’s clumsy defending, but is there any contact? I don’t think so
Simon F – A perfect example of how contact does not necessarily equal a foul, despite what commentators would have you believe. There is contact between the two players, but it does not check Davies’ momentum or cause him to fall, he felt it then threw himself to the ground and should have been booked for simulation.
Overall Verdict – Incorrect Decision
Wigan – Stoke
Whitehead Penalty For Handball
Simon M – I agree with Ben, it’s a natural, desperate reaction, so it’s understandable; however, it’s a definite handball and should have been a penalty. In fairness to the referee, it seemed like quite an awkward angle.
Ben – In fairness to Whitehead, I think this was more of a natural reaction than anything. That however, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a penalty. Stoke were really lucky to get away with this one.
Ant – Should have been a penalty not sure how much he meant to do it but he handballs it and stops the opposing player from getting the ball, clear penalty.
Mike – At first it looks like an awkward ball accidentally connects with Whitehead’s arm. But he seems to try and take advantage of this by moving it away with his arm. And his expression tells us everything. This was a handball and should have been a penalty.
Simon F – I’m not entirely sure what Whitehead is trying to do, but he clearly handles the ball and Wigan should have had a penalty.
Overall Verdict – Incorrect Decision
Newcastle – Liverpool
Carroll Penalty Shout (Pull)
Simon M – Is the defender gaining an unfair advantage by holding on to Carroll? Yes. As far as i’m concerned that means it’s a penalty.
Ben – This type of defending really frustrates me and it seems to happen to Carroll every week. He’s having a hard enough time as it is, some help from the referees wouldn’t go amiss. I should know better by now but I’m always shocked at what defenders can get away with.
Ant – I think there needs to be some clarification from referees on what is accepted in these circumstances. I think the defender clearly stops Carroll from getting to the ball, Carroll goes down too easily but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t fouled. These decisions are too inconsistent from referees.
Mike – Carroll undoubtedly went down too easily, but the final angle is telling. Williamson is clumsy and this is barge from behind for me. He also seems to wrap an arm round Carroll. Should have been a penalty.
Simon F – Another case of contact between players not necessarily equating to a penalty. Yes there is a bump between Williamson and Carroll, but the latter goes down very easily and it would have been very harsh to see a penalty awarded.
Overall Verdict – Incorrect Decision
Simpson Penalty For Handball
Simon M – A packed penalty area, so some understanding for the ref, but surely the linesman would have been better placed to pick this out. It’s a definite handball and a penalty should have been awarded. I would also have shown a red card.
Ben – Maybe harder to give in real-time for the referee but this was a potential game changer and Liverpool can feel really hard done by. Simpson definitely used his arm here and a penalty and a red should have followed.
Ant – I think this should have been a penalty his arm stops the ball from going into the goal on purpose.
Mike – No question, this should have been a penalty. Simpson clearly nudges the ball away using his arm.
Simon F – I have sympathy for the referee because, at the moment that Simpson uses his arm to clear the ball, Andy Carroll blocking his view, but this is exactly the sort of decision that his assistant should be helping him with, and there is no doubt in my mind that both a penalty and red card should have been awarded.
Overall Verdict – Incorrect Decision x 2
Cisse Goal Offside
Simon M – I mentioned this to a Liverpool supporting mate, earlier in the week, and he wasn’t too sure about it….he’s about two yards offside. A shocking decision from the linesman and the ref.
Ben – Going to have to side with Liverpool once again here, it’s close but Cisse is just about offside.
Ant – Only just offside but that is still offside.
Mike – Cisse is marginally offside here and the goal should not have stood.
Simon F – Another one on which I have sympathy for the officials, as I understand why he thought that Flanagan got a touch on the ball, thereby starting a new phase of play and putting Cisse onside, but that wasn’t the case, he didn’t touch the ball and Cisse remained well offside.
Overall Verdict – Incorrect Decision
Reina Red Card
Simon M – Perch’s reaction gets Reina sent off, in my opinion. We often see players go head to head and it’s usually laughed off as handbags, even by the officials. I understand the red card, but a little bit of continuity wouldn’t go amiss.
Ben – I’m going to go against the grain here, I know you shouldn’t do this because it’s apparently violent behavior but watch the reply – was it really violent? It’s nothing but handbags and it’s times like these that I think referee should be allowed to use their common sense. Talk to both players, give out a yellow each and tell them to calm down. The yellow to Perch for a cynical foul and a yellow to Reina for being stupid.
As for James Perch, by now we know that he has no shame about diving – because that’s what it is – and this type of thing is just as bad if not worse than what Reina did. He’s grabbing his face, rolling around on the floor to get another professional sent off. It’s embarrassing, not to mention utterly pathetic.
Ant – You cannot do this in a football match and get away with it. Perch goes down embarrassingly but it is still not allowed and a red card was well deserved.
Mike – Hopefully James Perch is feeling embarrassed about going down clutching his face. Does Reina even make contact? I’m not sure. But it’s a stupid reaction from Reina and he did have to go.
Simon F – Much has been made of Perch’s shameful reaction to not being touched, but the simple fact of the matter is that Reina went to headbutt him, and that constitutes violent conduct, no matter whether there is contact or what Perch’s reaction is. Martin Atkinson was absolutely right to send him off.
Overall Verdict – Correct Decision
Blackburn – Man Utd
Dann Handball Shout
Simon M – We see these week in, week out and we provide the same answer every time. Too close and not enough time for the defender to get out of the way.
Ben – Nothing but a genuine attempt to block the ball
Ant – Spot on from the referee, there is no intent and his arm is not stuck out so no penalty.
Mike – Dann is going down to try and make a block, but his arm is tucked in and he doesn’t make any attempt to use it.
Simon F – Dann’s arm is tucked down beside his body and the ball is hit from close range, not a penalty.
Overall Verdict – Correct Decision
Blackburn Ruled Out Goal
Simon M – The replay I found wasn’t particularly conclusive, but I watched this live and there were some slowed down replays, which showed the ball was clearly over the line and despite a fantastic hit from Pedersen the officials made the correct call.
Ben – I think this one was correct, it’s hard to tell but it does look just about over the line. I’ll side with the linesman, he has a fantastic view of it.
Ant – Great strike but the ball had gone out of play before the cross.
Mike – The ball does look as if it has gone out of play in its entirety. For that reason, the goal can’t stand.
Simon F – An excellent strike from Pedersen, but the ball had crossed the line and gone out of play before it was pulled back, so the officials were right to disallow it.
Overall Verdict – Correct Decision
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You can follow all five judges on Twitter; Simon M – @Deb_Decisions, Ben – @0Neji, Ant – @Acidburn81, Mike – @Mike7077 and Simon F – @SFurnivall.
Picture courtesy of Blog Gallery on Flickr.
Tags: Blackburn, Bolton, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd, Newcastle, Stoke, Sunderland, Wigan, Wolves
Just a small suggestion: while there are footballers with unusual names and those famous enough so that you’ll know who they are by surname alone, something as bald as “Davies penalty” in the Wolves v Bolton match results in a bit of head-scratching not least because Wolves had two players called Davies and Bolton one called Davis.
In this case, the fact that a penalty had been awarded makes finding out which team it related to – if you didn’t know – fairly easy though even that could have been tricky if it hadn’t resulted in a goal. But if this had been a turned-down penalty shout it could be quite difficult to make out who was or was not hard done by, especially if you hadn’t seen the match or its highlights.
I realise it won’t always be necessary, all I’m suggesting is perhaps some way of ensuring that it’s clear either in the body text or in the sub-header which team either gained or lost from the decision.
If you’re intending to keep these for posterity various Davies, Smiths, Jones, Browns, Greens etc could be quite hard to distinguish a few years down the line.
Re: Man City v Sunderland
For Sunderland’s first goal against Man City, I’d have disallowed it for Bendtner’s offside. He was clearly in an offside position and although he didn’t touch the ball he was very much obstructing Joe Hart’s view of Larsson which I’d have thought fell into the “clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision” part of “interfering with an opponent”. Therefore I’d have said he was guilty of an offside offence and as a result the goal should not have been allowed. Hard call, I’ll grant you.
Simon – The point you make in your first post is something I can relate to because the title given to each decision is the one sent to us judges. Fortunately, we also get a video, so I’m not scratching my head for long.
Personally, I’d like to see the full name of every player involved in a decision for every decision. For example, if Luis Suarez brings down Tony Hibbert when Hibbert is through on goal and it’s debatable, I’d like something along the lines of “Luiz Suarez (Liverpool) with possible trip on Tony Hibbert (Everton): Foul in box and red card?”.
Well, something like that.
Well guys plenty to debate in week 32…
The Cisse “Offside Goal” vs Liverpool was not offside because Ben Arfa was ruled to have touched the ball after Ba’s pass when Cisse was back in an onside position. That’s why Ben Arfa was awarded the assist and Ba was not. Unless you want to argue Ben Arfa didn’t touch the ball. If he didn’t, it was offside and you have a doubly wrong call against Liverpool.